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Commemorating Bottle Dug, but for What?

Posted By mindscapeart 11/26/2014 1:57:37 PM
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mindscapeart
 Posted 11/26/2014 1:57:37 PM
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Hi, Dug this Bottle about 20yrs ago from a tip in Ayr when I lived there. To this day I still haven't found what it commemorates. Looks like etched all around it is Durham Cathedral, prince of wales feathers, a horse and 2 flags.

With blob top, measures 35ch x 7cm with a base of which I have not seen, early hock bottle.

If anyone possibly from the north has any idea please let me know.

thanks Adrian


adrian
 front bottle.jpg (176 views, 69.31 KB)
 bottom.jpg (89 views, 97.94 KB)
 top.jpg (86 views, 81.88 KB)
 1.jpg (106 views, 266.69 KB)
 2.jpg (84 views, 270.22 KB)
expat
 Posted 11/26/2014 3:36:54 PM
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No. havent a clue what the event is/was.However the design is not etched but stippled, ie applied after the event onto a previously plain bottle, by the owner or similar. It must have been an important event to him to justify this kind of labour!



Veni Vidi Velcro. I came I saw I stuck around.
Poacher
 Posted 11/26/2014 4:01:15 PM
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Yes, me thinks its been done locally and for an important occasion. Its most definatly a keeper and has local historical significance of a sort. I would be tempted to trace the church, then the angle of view and nail it down to a specific area. Then, look up important occasions celebrated by that church maybe? Its a fine work of art and a probably a real one-off. :cool:

http://www.bottledigging.org.uk/forum/Uploads/Images/2e09089c-b129-46b1-a5cf-16d9.jpg

Dedicated to Neath area bottles, flagons etc.



burroughs4me!!
 Posted 11/26/2014 4:18:16 PM
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looks similar to the Alloa bottles , nice hand decoration ,

http://www.bottledigging.org.uk/forum/Uploads/Images/671650fb-ffce-4435-adcc-0ba9.jpg

Graham
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Stuart A
 Posted 11/26/2014 11:43:48 PM
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I have a thought as to what this might be commemorating. But before I chance my arm, do you recall the date of tip it came off?

Also, is there something that makes you so sure that it is Durham? If the connection is what I think it might be, then York Minster would be more likely. But interested to hear why you say Durham.
aldo
 Posted 11/27/2014 9:57:20 AM
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Nice bottle. Looks to be around 1910.

A tip in Ayr!! I have looked for an Ayr tip for many years and come up with nothing.
Stuart A
 Posted 11/27/2014 12:11:25 PM
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I would have guessed first world war era, which fits in with my theory of it being a bit of trench art rather than a commemorative piece. The cathedral makes for quite a difficult starting point I think. While the detailing is very good, at the end of the day it is pretty hard to differentiate an artistic representation of one gothic English cathedral from any other in the absence of a distinguishing feature. Unless I’m missing somethinghere that could be any one of a dozen English cathedrals.

The badges are a bit more specific. The flags are without question regimental colours. The one on the right is lacking a bit of detail, but the regimental emblems below tell us they are the colours of the The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment):

http://www.bottledigging.org.uk/forum/Uploads/Images/04b79d70-f61e-49d1-95c5-ff85.jpg

The West Yorkshire's regimental badge is this:

http://www.bottledigging.org.uk/forum/Uploads/Images/b3c426a8-2f58-4db6-aaca-0829.jpg

Why it has been reversed on the bottle is a bit of a mystery, but I don't think there is any doubt that that is what that is. The Prince of Wales feathers speak for themselves. The regimental chapel is in York Minster, hence my earlier post.

So I think the bottle is definitely related to The Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire Regiment). But I think that rather than commemorating a specific event, it may have been a piece of trench art made by a soldier at the front during World War I. If so, it's an appropriate time to have rediscovered it!

Stuart A
 Posted 11/27/2014 12:41:16 PM
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In fact, the more I think about it the more I wonder whether that cathedral might not actually be in France somewhere, and may have been the dominant feature on the otherwise flat and muddy landscape in which its artist was entrenched.
expat
 Posted 11/27/2014 3:33:48 PM
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Fantastic and highly convincing theory StuartA, well done for that. Perhaps the unusual lip/ bodyform combination may be because it doesnt hail from Britain as you have surmised. Either way, a good thread all round.



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earlyglass
 Posted 11/27/2014 3:35:17 PM
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Probably not actually commemorating anything....at least this time! ....except love......ahhh!
This stippling of bottles was one of the "crafts" that ladies particularly were allowed to partake in during late Victorian/early Edwardian periods, though I am sure men may well have produced them also. I have various examples very similar including a set of four, all stippled by "Jane Hands" in 1879/80. In this instance I am guessing the item was done just as a keepsake, and in this instance it could well have been done by a lover/fiance of either gender, but obviously the male side would have been in this regiment that has been researched above. I am rather tempted to stick with the female production theory because of the incorrectly reversed insignia, AND the "vague" regimental flag on the right - the girl would not have remembered exactly what the details were, whereas the boy would have definitely known them and be certain of producing them exactly. So I feel this is a keepsake produced by the girl for her young man who was in this regiment. Datewise I am alittle unsure of. The bottle is a little earlier than WW!, but then that wouldn't necessarily be a problem. I do ave an example dated 1908 which was also produced by a woman, so we could be getting close to that period, but I think more likely an earlier period. Not sureof the history of that regiment, maybe Boer War or any of the little "policing" actions we wereinvoved in late 1800's /early1900's, or simply being stationed in a far off land looking after acornerof the empire...
This stippling originated generally in the early 1800's, produced by one or two artists working on bulbous capacity bottles near Scottish Glasshouses, and there are a large numberof exampls of ceremonial bottles for marriages/masonic lodges etc with scottish influencesand names of couples etc. The naievety of someof the illustrations is always charming. Many examples datedaround the 1830 period, but again a number around 1850s, but then by 1870+ usually it is these tall slender wine bottles, with a definite female "craft & decorative" influence.
Hope that helps.... www.earlyglass.com facebook group "Earlyglass for sale & show"


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